FTC Chair Lina Khan was the youngest person appointed to the position when she took up the position in 2021. But when her term ends in September – after which she is going to remain in office until a successor is chosen – her age could also be the final thing people remember about her reign.

More likely, Khan’s legacy will confront Big Tech – and accomplish that very publicly. Unlike his decidedly low-flying predecessors, Khan recurrently speaks to the media about how the FTC is carrying out its mandate to each implement antitrust laws and protect consumers, with a continuing highlight on today’s tech giants.

This strategy is much more noteworthy considering how small the FTC is – with just 1,300 employees working on about 150 cases at a time and an annual budget of just $400 million. This is a drop in the ocean for some of the outfits examined by the agency.

We talked to Khan about her approach—and where she thinks Silicon Valley gets it unsuitable—during a gathering earlier this week at one of StrictlyVC’s more intimate TechCrunch events, this time happening in Washington, DC. Portions of this conversation have been edited for length below. You can take heed to the entire conversation Here.

Over the past twenty years, Washington has been dominated by huge players like Google and Microsoft. I used to be hoping we would start with the Wall Street Journal. report that federal regulators are moving forward with their investigation of some of these big players – Microsoft, OpenAI and Nvidia – should you can say something about their plans.

You are right that interest in DC is high and we want to be certain that we’re capable of capitalize on the opportunities and potential that these tools present, while ensuring that these markets remain open, fair and competitive, quite than allowing certain types of narrow necks or bottlenecks in a way that might undermine that competition, that chance and that innovation. . . I used to be in Silicon Valley a number of months ago and it was really interesting to listen to from these founders, especially about how there’s so much of confusion immediately about who gets access to certain key inputs, whether it’s computations or models, regardless , whether there’s any guarantee that you simply aren’t effectively transmitting proprietary information. So I feel there’s so much of excitement, but we also hear some fatigue that may set in once we realize that so much of power has already been concentrated, and then that concentration of power can prevent innovation and competition.

It also appears that some of the people you are attempting to manage are getting more creative with the deals they enter into, resembling Microsoft’s take care of Inflection AI, a man-made intelligence company whose co-founder and employees were hired by Microsoft in March and now Microsoft pays him a $650 million licensing fee so he can resell the technology (InflectionAI). This is just not a merger. Have they talked to your agency or other regulators about what they’re doing?

I’m limited in what I can say about some of these specific transactions or specific potential issues. I’ll say that we’re fascinated with remaining vigilant to avoid evasion of applicable regulations. We have made it clear that each one existing laws still apply: laws prohibiting mergers that will significantly reduce competition, laws prohibiting price fixing and collusion. Whether you set the price via an algorithm or a handshake, each are still illegal. Overall, we attempt to fastidiously analyze and make sure that that some of these innovations don’t result in potential violations of the law. We need to make sure that everyone plays by the same rules.

I’ll say that earlier this 12 months we also launched an investigation into some of the strategic partnerships and investments to make sure that we understand what’s really going on here. We have heard some concerns about, for instance, whether some of these partnerships and investments may lead to privileged access for some or exclusion of access for others. . and this work remains to be ongoing.

Apple has also made a number of announcements (this week at WWDC). It announced that it’s integrating OpenAI into some of its offerings; said additionally it is open to working with other third parties, including potentially Google Gemini. It appears that many of the partnerships involve the same players, which might be a bit concerning to you immediately. What do you concentrate on what got here out of this event?

We’ve seen that in the past, some of the most important breakthrough innovations have come from startups, entrepreneurs, and small players who can simply have a look at things otherwise, see a gap in the market, and really disrupt the way in a way that distracts the big boys. . .

It is true that at the moment let’s imagine that some of the current incumbents may control access to the inputs and raw materials needed for some of these innovations. That’s why we must remain vigilant to be certain that this moment of competition, innovation and disruption is just not hijacked by incumbents in a way that closes off the market and prevents us from truly having fun with the innovation and competition that has historically kept our country ahead. . .

I do know you do not buy this argument that these firms should be protected (from antitrust actions) because any slowdown in them will weaken the United States as a rustic. On the one hand, many individuals agree with this; they need the whole lot to crumble in order that startups can breathe. Others may say, “This technology is developing much faster than anything we’ve ever seen. Autonomous weapons can use this technology. How do you justify breaking off relations without exposing the country to any risk?

Even 40 or 50 years ago, when the Department of Justice was investigating AT&T, it was the Department of Defense that stepped in and said, “Hey, we really need to be careful because taking antitrust action against AT&T could pose a national security risk.” Even then, we heard many analogous arguments.

There are several natural experiments. At various times we’ve been faced with the selection of whether we should always protect and pamper our monopolies or protect the laws of fair competition. And time and time again we selected the path of competition. And that’s what has driven and catalyzed many of these breakthrough innovations and much of the extraordinary growth that our country has enjoyed and that has allowed us to stay at the forefront of the world. If you have a look at other countries which have as a substitute chosen this model of national champions, they’re the ones who’ve been left behind. I feel we want to recollect these lessons from history as we decide our path again.

There are founders and VCs on this audience who’ve mixed feelings about you because they need their firms to thrive, and they’re concerned that you simply’re so vocal about having your eye on Big Tech that firms aren’t making any (acquisitions) ). Exits are an enormous path for VCs and founders; How can we assure them that they’re doing what’s best for them, each in the short and long run?

We definitely understand that for some startups and founders, acquisition is a key exit path that interests them. In fact, the law prohibits an exit or takeover that strengthens a monopoly or allows a dominant company to purchase out a nascent and competitive threat. . . For comparison: every year we receive as many as 3,000 merger applications. About 2% of them actually get reconsidered by the government, so we’ve 98% of all transactions that mostly undergo.

I can even say that should you’re a startup or founder who’s acquisition as an exit, I feel a world where you have got six, seven, or eight potential suitors is a greater world than one where you simply have one or two.

There are 1,500 people at the FTC?

About 1,300, or actually 400 fewer people than in the Nineteen Eighties, although the economy has grown greater than 15 times. . we’re a small agency, but we definitely punch above our weight.

I do not know should you’re taking more motion than your predecessors or should you’re just more visible. Did you already know that you simply are moving at a faster pace than your predecessors on this position?

You can have a look at the numbers and you possibly can see that there are some increases. However, in my view, counting the number of lawsuits or investigations is just one technique to capture impact. The type of cases you bring can also be necessary. For me, it was necessary to make sure that that we were actually : where can we see the most harm? Where can we see players who we consider are more systematically causing some of these problems through illegal behavior? So in the same way that having the ability to go after a mob boss will probably be more practical than going after some henchmen at the bottom, you desire to be effective in your law enforcement strategy. That’s why we’re the next level and taking on lawsuits that might really go against some of the big players; we expect that if we’re successful, it can have a extremely positive impact on the market.

In terms of deterrence, I feel we’re already seeing something there. We recurrently hear from senior transaction advisors and senior antitrust lawyers who say quite openly that five, six or seven years ago, when a possible transaction was being considered, antitrust risk and even antitrust evaluation was not at the top of the conversation, and now she is in the foreground. For law enforcement agencies, if firms take into consideration this legal issue early on, that is a extremely good thing because then we cannot must spend so many public resources on transactions that we consider violate the law.

Are you using AI to scale your relatively small office that has a reasonably limited budget?

What we’re wondering about is: Are there ways, especially for some of our economic evaluation, to make the most of some of these tools? Of course, making this possible requires some pretty significant computational improvements, and we’re asking Congress for more funding to make it possible (protected).